(1) Yes." '' ( 2) It is considered that the form of. Tent-card at present used by the ....
:Ewan: Tar a. Jir. ..... The most important provision is Clause 6 ..... Those ptac-.
Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard] Legislative Assembly
TUESDAY, 25 MARCH 1958
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
1992
Questions.
[ASSElVIBLY.]
Questions.
Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough) replied'' (1) The information was obtained from the most competent available source, but, as I informed the Honourable Member in answer to his question on 19th instant the estimate was made early in the season and happily for the pineapple growers of Cairns it was substantially exceeded.''
TUESDAY, 25 MARCH, 1958. Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. A. R. Fletcher, Cunningham) took the chair at 11 a.m. QUESTIONS. PINEAPPLE CANNERY Nl' CAIRNS.
Mr. ADAIR (Cook) asked the Premier" (1) In reference to my question of March 19 aml his reply thereto will he please advise the House who furnished the erroneous information regarding the estimated pineapple crop in North Queensland~''
"(2) Has the Government decided on a policy detrimental to the development of North Queensland on the basis of this inaccurate information~'' " ( 3) Will he now take steps to carefully review the establishment of a cannery at Cairns~''
"(2) Not at all. I am forced to the conclusion that the basis of the Honourable Member's question is a desire to create the false impression that this Government is not sincere in its determination to adequately safeguard the interests of North Queensland in its policy of development. If this be so, I can warn him of the difficulties he will encounter. The people of his particular area are fully aware and thoroughly appreciative of the enlightened and progressive policy of my Government for the development of all sections of Queensland compared with the unimaginative and lackadaisical handling of the situation by the Government to which he gave his staunch support. If he will read my answer to his question of November 7, 1957, which evidently he has not, he will ascertain the Government's requirements before entering into an agreement to furnish guarantees for the erection of a cannery at CairnR and so I repeat these requisites which are:-(a) That growers in the Cairns area would be prepared to accept their share of the financial responsibilities attached to the erection of a cannery in the same way as growers in other parts of the State have done; (b) That sufficient fruit of a suitable quality is available to warrant a cannery; (c) That the economics of the proposal are sound, in view of the availability of markets. In my answer of November 7, I also furnished evidence to show that the present position of the overseas market for the sale of canned pineapples is anything but bright. It is the height of absurdity to suggest that the difficulty has been solved simply because the supply of pineapples from the Cairns area for the season just passed exceeded the estimate. We are firmly convinced that to proceed with the erection of a cannery at Cairns under present circumstances would be suicidal and could only lead to the ultimate ruination of the producers in that area whilst at the same time seriously affecting the economy of the whole State.'' "(3) I repeat my previous assurance that in accordance with our policy to do p,verything possible to populate and develop North Queensland the question of the establishment of a cannery at Cairns will be constantly and carefully reviewed. In pursuance of this policy we are, at the moment, taking steps to set up an expert Committee to review the whole question of the future of the pineapple industry ani! the economics of establishing canneries at Cairns and/or other centres."
Questions.
[25
Valuation, &c., Bill.
MARCH.)
SELECTIOK OF LABOUR FOR WORK SUBSIDISED BY GOVERNMENT.
Hon. P. J. n. HILTON (Carnarvon) asked the Acting Minister for Labour and Indusb·y'' (1) Will he advise what procedure is now observed in selecting labour for works undertaken by (a) the State Government, (b) Local Aut_horities and other semigovernmental bodies for works subsidised by the State GovernmenH" '' (2) Is it a fact that the selecting officer eau now_ engage any person, other than key _g1en or specialized workers, as he thinks fit W" "(3) If the answer to (2) is in the affirmative, is not a :flagrant injustice inflicted on married men with family responsibilities and equal qualifications, when single men are engaged in preference to married men~'' "(4) Under the present system, what safeguards, if any, are taken to prevent undue patronage in the selection of labour?''
Hon. J. C. A. PlZZEY (Isis) replied" (1 and 2) State Government Authorities, Local Authorities, and semiGovernmental bodies now have the same freedom in the engagement of labour as any private employer.'' " ( 3 and 4) The conditions under which labour is engaged are no different, whether the employer is a Governmental, semiGovernmental body or Local Authority or private employer, and no instances of the conditions referred to by the Honourable Member obtaining have been received. I might mention that much thought preceded the change to the present method, and nothing has eventuated to indicate that the change to the present system was not desirable.'' RENT-CARD AND RECEIPT FOR TENANTS OF QUEENSLAND HOUSING COMMISSION.
JUr. I,LOYD (Kedron), for Mr. ~IANN (Brisbane), asked the Treasurer and Minister for Housing" ( 1) Is he familiar with the type of rent-card and receipt issued to tenants by the Queensland Housing Commission~'' "(2) As tenants have difficulty in following these, will he consider replacing them with a more simplified type so that tenants can assess at a glance their current position~''
Hon. 'f. A. HlLIYner or agent may be rec]Uircd to lodge a c1epo8it with the superintendent or give security for medical attention given to a master, seaman or apprentice who is incapacitated in the course of his duty. This is not required under the present Acts. Regulating pO\Yers are proyided to deal >Yith accommodation on board ship for masters, officers and crew. At present, such requirements are set on t in the Acts. Under new provisions, an official log book and an engineroom leg book shall be kept on e•·ery intrastate ship (not being a harbour or river ship) of 50 tons or over and upon the cessation of their use the books must be for· >varc1cc1 to the superintendent. Part V. deals with passengers. The provisions regarding passengers will apply to ships trading within territorial waters and the inland navigable waters of this State. Offences by passengers or intending passengers are enumerated in the Bill and the powers of masters or other officials in regard thereto set out. In general, these are similar
Queensland Marine Bill.
[25
MARCH.]
to those now obtaining. Power is reprovided for the making of any regulations considered neces:·arv for the control, etc., of passenger ships. • Part VI. deals with survey of ship~. Generally, ships must not ply without a certificate of survey or a permit issued by the Marine Board or a certificate recognisC'd by the Board. The Marine Board may detain a ship which has no certificate of survey. This cannot be done at present. 'l'he Governor in Council will be empowered to exempt any class of vessel from survey conditions and the ~1arinc Board may exempt a vessel not carrying pa~sengers. Under the present Acts th:re nre no such powers. As at present, the Manne Board will be authorised to issue a sengoing certificate or a limited coasting certificate of survey to allow a ship to make short voyages to sea and operate within the limits of a port. The Marine Board will also have power to extend certificates of survey for n period not exceeding two months. Under certain conditions, a certificate of survey may now continue in force up to 30 days after expiry. Care has been taken to ensure that there will Le no unnecessary duplication of survey requirements. If a vessel carries a current certificate of survey from an acceptuble authority, the Marine Board may dispense with a separate State survey. Part VII. deals with safety and prevention of accidents. Unless otherwise provided, this part applies to coasters. There is a new provision to the effect that any person sending, or any master knowingly taking, an unseaworthy vessel to sea will be guilty of a crime. However, no prosecution shall be instituted without the consent of the Minister. In general, a vessel shall not c:ury more passengers than the number shown on the relevant certificate, but the Marine I3onrrl will be empowered to approve of the carrying of c·xrra ]'a~seng8rs on special occasions. It is proposed, however, to provide that persons rescued at sea shall not be classed as excess passengers. With a view to preventing the overcrowding and overloading of vessels, there is a new provision giving power to make regulations in regard thereto. Deck and load lines must be marked on certain classes of ships exceeding 15 tons. At present, this applies only to intrastate trading vessels over 50 tons but it is considered desirable to have power to insist upon the marking of deck and load lines on vessels under that tonnage now operating along the Queensland coast. It is reprovided that a vessel shall be properly equipped as prescribed, the equipment kept in good order, and any lost or damaged must be replaced or repaired as early as possible. The present provisions covering the making of safety regulations have been widened to provide power to regulate regarding the maY!ring of lifesaving appliances, the mustering and embarking of passengers in lifeboats, appliances for the detection of fire, and
Queensland
]}furine
Bill.
2005
practice of boat and fire drill. Those ptactices are applied on all large overseas passenger liners, and we are now bringing Queensland's law up to accepted world stand-. ards. Power to make regulations regarding lights, signals, persons in distress, and the prevention of collisions will be rcprovided. There is a new provision setting out the procedure to Le followed by ships going to the assistance of other ships, aircraft, or distressed persons in danger at sea. The rendering of such assistance will be an obligation unless circumstances determine otherwise. Incidentally, a seaplane, whilst on the water, is subject to marine laws. This provision recognises the extraordinary need that can arise in waters wherever maritime commerce is conducted. Vvhenever an accident occurs and distress is present, because of the remoteness of the scene of the disaster there must be an obligation on any ship in the neighbourhood that can render help to do so, not only as a moral duty but as a statutory duty. In the Queensland countryside it is the accepted code of behaviour for a motorist to stop alongside a stranded car and inquire if he can be of any help. The same code, of course, is not applied on the main city arteries. On the high seas we must impose a statutory obligation for which there is no parallel on land. A new requirement is that a master of a ship will be obliged to report any danger to navigation encountered on a voyage. There is a new provision that any person who knowingly sends or carries dangerous goods on a ship under a false description, or falsely describes the sender or carrier of such goods, will be liable to prosecution. Vvhen dangerous goods are not marked in compliance with the Act, a magistrate may order their forfeiture and disposal or, if they are on board a ship, the master may have them thrown overboard. The power thus given to a magistrate is not included in the present Acts. The Marine Board will be given power to prohibit the carriage of any cargo likely to endanger a ship or interfere with the comfort of either passengers or crew. There is a new requirement that information about a ship's stability must be available for the guidance of masters of prescribed vessels. Regulations may be made affecting watertight and fireproof bulkheads and openings in holds and the operation and maintenance thereof, steering apparatus, and the astern power of a vessel. There is no such provision in the present Acts. Where there is interference with navigation, an authorised person will have right of entry on any premises to remove any fire, light, etc., after a notice to remove or screen it has been given and disregarded. Any expenses so incurred may be recovered. At present, entry on private property cannot be
2006
Queensland Marine Bill.
[ASSEMBLY.]
made for this purpose. Those hon. uwm hers who have had the experience of coming up a stream on a squally night will realise that sometimes a prominent sign, especially a fluorescent sign, can be confusing when you are watching for leading lights. In such case, if the Marine Board finds that a sign or light could be a lure that would mislead navigation, it will have the power to order the screening or removal of it. If the owner does not comply with the request, the Board will havP pmYer to remove the light or sign and send the bill to the owner. Part VIII.-Pilotage. The present powers of the Governor in Council to define the limits of R port Rre reprovidcd. Unless otherwise provided, ships of or in the service of the Queensland Government, non-trading ships (including vessels of war) belonging to the Government of any member of the British Commonwealth of Nations or a British possession, all ships of the Naval, Military or Air Force of any foreign government, ships under 50 register tons, ships in eharge of a ma:,ln holding a relevant current pilotage exemption certificate and nny other non-hading ships as may be prefcribet1 hy regulations arc exempted from the provisions of the Bill relating to compulsory pilotage. Under tlH• present Acts, vessels belonging to Her Majesty and the governments of her colonies, vessels of war belonging to allies of Her Majesty, vessels in charge of masters with relevant current certificates of exemption, vessels under 50 tons and private yachts, are exempt. So the new provision slightly widens the power of exemption. Any of the aforementioned vessels will be liable for the payment of pilotage rates if a pilot is engaged. The only thing they will be excused from is the compulsory requirement to engage a pilot. If they call for a pilot they pay the same standard rate as any other vessel. The Bill provides for the licensing of duly qualified persons as port pilots and Queensland coastal and Torres Strait pilots. There is a new provision that before a person can be examined for a pilotage exemption certificate he must be a British subject. Fees payable for examination will be prescribed by regulations instead of included in the Acts as at present. A requirement in the Bill will be that examinations for pilotage-exemption certificates must take place within two years of the completion of an applicant's qualifying service. Although there is no similar provision in the present Acts, the principle has been followed for some time. Authority to hold periodical examinations for renewal of pilotage exemption certificates is reprovidecl. At present, pilotage rates are prescribed by regulation with a maximum fee contained in the Acts. It is proposed that such fees shall continue to be fixed by regulation but no maximum is provided in the Bill. 'Fees will
Queensland 1\!Iarine Bill.
be calculated on the gross and not nett rPgister tonnage as at present. This is the practice of all Australian ports except in Victoria. The practice of charging half rates for pilotage at the third port of call will be discontinued as it has partly lost its purpose. On this subject a statement of the polic;r of the Government on charges for services provided bv the Crown in terms of the Bill will not be ~miss. For 1956-57 the revenue from pilotage fees and port rates (the latter being a charge to cover the cost of providing nnvigation aids) totalled about £212,000, while the cost of the sm·vices provided, \Yithout making any allowance for interest and redemption on the pilot vessels, amouutet1 to £317,000. The State was therefore llom1 by £105,000. Higher charges operating from 1 February, 1958, are expected to inercase the revenue by about £30,000 pur annum. The Government have no desire to seek a profit from services which we look upon ns a necessity to the maritime public, but we do propose to seck to recover most of our outlay. The scale of charges will be adjusted from time to time to this end. It is fitting that I should give the House a comparison between charges of pilots' services in the principal pmts of Australia. Taking a fully laden ship of 10,000 tons gross, the present charges would bePort.
Rate per Ton.
I Pilotage Charge.
---1---Brisbane ..
Sydney
..
l\Ielbourne
I Maximum 1
Charge.
Time of Pilotage.
4td.
£75 Os. (l'llax.)
£75
Five hours
2!d. (on gross tonnage)
£75 Os. (1\llax.)
£75
Two hours
(on net tonnage)
£126 10s. 5-1/16d. (on net tonnage)
£210
l-,ive
hours
Hon. members will observe that pilotage charges have been infinitely cheaper in the port of Brisbane than in comparable Austmlian ports. Again the charges up and down the coast are a tiny fraction of the charges in Brisbane. As regards pilotage services, in order to obtain more reliable information from shipping agents and also to use the services of the pilotage staff to the best advantage, it is necessary to increase existing penalties and impose new ones for failure to giv( proper notice of pilotage requirements and for undue delays to pilots on board ships. A new principle provides that when a consignee or his agent is made liable to pay pilotage dues, they may retain the amount so paid from any money held by them on behalf of the owner. In these days when every ship of any size is equipped with wireless there is no good excuse, except in the rarest of cases such as mechanical breakdown in the last hour or h~o of cruising, why a vessel should present 1tself at the pilot station without giving
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[25 l\IARCH.j
adequate warning to the pilot vessel. In the absence of such waming the handling of the roster of pilots is impeded and the go01d management and arrangement of the pilot staff is hampered. Quite drastic penalties will be provided under the Bill. Shipping companies will realise that the failure of one of its vessels to give proper notice of pilotage requirements will result in extra cost to the company because of the discomfort and inconvenience which has been occasioned. There is a new provrs10n that, although a ship is in the pilotage charge of a pilot, the Master will still be responsible for the conduct and navigation of the vessel. This is a matter that should be dealt with by someone who has a real understanding of maritime law. I understand that the common law on the subject, built up by a series of decisions, insists upon the sovereignty of the Master on his own vessel. It means that although a pilot boards a vessel, and in effect takes over the bridge, the Master is not absolved from responsibility. Indeed, he has the power to over-ride the advice of the pilot if he considers it is in the interests of the safety of the ship. So that there can be no doubt about the position we are writing this as a principle into the marine law of the State. I am assured by those who have studied the law on the subject that that has . always been an accepted provision in admrralty law, the law dealing with the conduct of vessels at sea, indeed accepted all over the world. But instead of basing it on common law built up on a whole series of legal decisions the Bill makes it a statute law of the land, The sovereignty of the Master as. against the pilot will be quite clearly established and the Master will be responsible for the conduct and navigation of the vessel. The master or owner of a ship shall be jointly and severall:y answerable for any loss or damage by a shrp or fault of navigation as if pilotage were not compulsory. At present this only applies to intrastate vessels. It is reprovided that neither the Crown nor the Minister or Board is liable in respect of any damage or loss arising from any act o~ omission of a pilot, and the pilot himself wrll not be personally liable in similar circumstances. I think that establishes the principle that the pilots are recognised as superior advisers in relation to the navigation of the particular port. They are advisers; they do not accept the responsibility which remains fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the master of the vessel_ Part IX. deals with inquiries and investigations into shipping casualties, incompetency and misconduct. The Bill provides for the holding of preliminary inquiries and formal investigations into shipping casualties, etc., and outlines the jurisdiction of the Marine !Board in that connection. I regnrd that as one of the most important duties with which it is clothed-
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The powers of the Marine Board to cancel or suspend certificates or licences following an investigation into a shipping casualty have been reprovided. There is a new provision under which the Attorney-General, at the request of the Minister, may direCt that an inquest be held into the cause of a death _on an intrastate ship, whether caused by a shipping casualty or not, in cases where there is no jurisdiction under the Coroners Act to hold an inquest. With the consent of the Minister, the Marine Board may direct that a formal investigation be held before a stipendiary magistrate. At present such investigations are held before two justices. Part X. deals with the regulation and control of certain vessels. The power to regulate for and control harbour and river ships, motor boats and lighters will be extended to cover houseboats, fishing vessels and any other class of vessel as the Governor in Council may determine. The Governor in Council will be given power to regulate, control and, if necessary. prohibit the navigation of any class of vessel in any waters within the jurisdiction. The power to make regulations dealing with the installation of wireless equipment in vessels is reprovided. Authority will be given to regulate regarding the prevention of nuisance, including the minimising of noise from the working of vessels, and the provision relating to the unlawful use of any vessel has been extended to prohibit the removal of or interference with a vessel or its equipment without the consent of the owner_ Part XI. deals with ports. The powers of the Bill will be in addition to, and not in substitution for, those of the Harbours Acts, 1955 to 1956A new principle has been included whereby, although a person may be prosecuted under either the Bill or the Harbours Acts, 1955 to 1956, for the same offence, action shall only be taken under one or the other. The House will agree that where it is possible for a person to be proceeded against under eithel' of two Statutes the Crown should be content with exercising one of the powers. It is unfair to charge a person under one Act, and having succeeded to have him charged again for virtually the same crime undpr another Statute. A prohibition on the placing .of buoy moorings, without proper approval, is incluc1ec1 in the Bill. This was previously provided for in the Navigation Acts, but repealed by the Harbours Act of 1955, as the section concerned also covered other harbour works. The Marine Board will be empowered to grant or refuse a permit for speed-boat racing or the holding of other aquatic sports in a port. At present there is no specific provision in law for this. A harbour master is empowered to control navigation at the port within his jurisdiction.
:::008
Queensland 1lfarine Bill.
[ASSEMBLY.]
It is proposed that neither the Crown, Minister, Marine Board, nor harbour master s~all be liable in respect of any act or omisswn on the part of a harbour master acting under the powers of the Bill.
The power of the Marine Board to declare a prohibited or reserved locality wherein certain ves.sels shall not be navigated or moored wh1le that declaration remains in force has been reprovided. ' There is a new prov1s10n giving specific power .to the Marine Board to erect lighthouses, etc. The pres_ent legislative authority to do so 1s not clear. The Department of Harbours and Marine deals with aids to navigation within a port area. The main navigation lights on the coast and at approaches to ports are dealt with by the Commonwealth Lighthouse and Navigation Service. The Commonwealth Government have jurisdiction over those waters. In the case of any accidental, wilful or negligent damage to navigation marks, the master or owner of a vessel or other persons concerned shall be liable to pay all expenses of replacement. At present, compenoat.ion cannot be claimed for acddental damage. Just as vandalism is expeTienced on land, the breaking of public property, the taking of trees planted for the beautification of a highway, it is not uncommon to find that some senseless people instead of enjoying all the opportunities for pleasures that exist in our ports go with a shotgun or pea rifle and shoot out a light or damage or remove some navigation mark. I have always been amazed at these instances of vandalism. I hope those people spare the time to think that by their careless and senseless acts they may not only damage or destToy very expensive property but also endanger human life. I do not know how vandalism can be prevented, short of a change in the outlook of some of our people, but I hope that any hon. memLer who comes across instances of vandalism, of peoplp interfering 'with guidl's rmd aids to navigation, ~will not hesitate to bring it to the notice of the authorities so that at least some people can be brought to punishment and a warning given to others who indulge senselessly in those practices. There is a new requirement that, where any navigation mark is fouled, by a ship, the master or owner of the ship \\ill have to notify the Marine Board within 24 hours of the accident. There is another new provision whereby unauthorised persor•s will be prohibited from trespassing on lighthouse property or any other navigation marks. The Marine Board will be reprovided with powers to deal with the pollution of the navigable and tidal waters within the jurisdiction. From time to time instances of pollution come to our notice. Recently complaints were received of owners releasing fuel oil in the Southport basin, thus fouling the shore and marking the hulls of vessels.
Queensl t1iseiplinary provisions of the Bill. Mr. Walslt: wate!:§)
What
are
Queensland
I heartily support the Bill and put forward those suggestions for safety in the use of dinghies and other small craft.
Mr. HART: The hon. member knows that the general rule is that every country has jurisdiction to legislate for the area within the 3-mile limit. I will not elaborate on that, or even upon exactly how far McLeod 's case is still good law.
lUr. HART (Mt. Gravatt) (3.20 p.m.): I have been requested by the Minister to deal with the disciplinary provisions of the Bill. These are founded upon the provisions of the Commonwealth Navigation Act 1912-1956 and the English Merchant Shipping Act of 1894.
As to the disciplinary provisions themselves, first of all Clause 32 ( 1) says'' Unless otherwise expressly provided, this Part shall apply to all coasters (including passengers, coasters, and restricted limit ships) of 80 or more register tons. ''
Queensland M. arine Bill.
[25
MARCH.]
The part referred to is Part IV. which deals with seamen. By the definition, that figure of register tons refers to net tonnage, which was a source of trouble to the hon. member for Port Curtis. ~Ir.
net
Burrows: How do you arrive at that
tonnage~
iUr. HART: I leave that to the hon. member to work out. This refers to ships only of 80 or more registered tons. I understand it limits it to only about five ships plying along the Queensland coast. When the bauxite deposits are developed under this Government under the wise direction of the Minister for Development, Mines and Main Roads, we shall probably have many more ships plying along the coast. Normally large-sized vessels ply inter-State. As soon as that happens the provisions of the Bill would not apply. l'\Ir. Burrows: Because of Section 92? Mr. HART: It has got nothing to do with Section 92! Section 109 is the relevant section. Amongst other definitions the Bill defines ''ship'' as ''Every vessel used in navigation not ordinarily propelled by oars only.'' This is the definition which applies generally and is applicable to Part V. which contains the disciplinary provisions with respect to passengers. To deal with the common law on the subject let me read from Halsbury, Volume 30, 2nd Edition at page 232, 'A master may, apart from the powers conferred upon him by statute, take all reasonable means to preserve discipline in the ship." Again at page 233' 'A seaman is not bound to perform any services other than those stipulated for in his con tract of service. "
Qu(ertsland )Jarine Bill.
use reasonable means to enforce obedience to his lawful commands, and may, when necessary, remove or even imprison a disobedient passenger, but his power is limited to the necessity of the case, and, if he uses excessive means to enforce obedience, or attempts to enforce obedience in such a manner as to exceed his authority, he is liable to an action for damages.'' 1\Ir. Jesson: Do you know why they always sit down to drink their rum in the Navy, and never stand up~ 1\Ir. HART: I know nothing about it. I was dealing with the common law. At times it has been excessively harsh. In the case of the Lowther Castle 1 Hag. Adm. in 1825 a seaman was charged with answering back an officer and doing his duty in a, negligent and slovenly manner. The Court of Inquiry awarded a punishment of 36 lashes on his naked back. The seaman sued the captain for damages but the court held that he had not been treated with excessive severity. I do not think that any British Court would come to that conclusion these days. At that time the law both on the sea and on the land was very harsh. In the case of the Agincourt in the previous year a seaman brought an action against his captain for excessive brutality. Not only did the captain have him whipped, but he attacked him with his fists. He got £100 damages. The law has been developing since that time. Our ideas of punishment have altered to a great extent. Nowadays if a captain caused a seaman to be given 36 lashes he would no doubt have heavy damages given against him. The law courts still retain the right to give damages in civil matters. l\Ir. Walsh: That applies even if they are bitten with bugs.
It
1\'Ir. HART: I do not think there would be ground for an action for damages because of bugs.
Mr. HART: It is not in the Arbitration Act. I am explaining the common law because the provisions of the Bill cannot be understood without studying the common law. At page 233 Halsbury says'' A seaman is not bound to perform any services other than those stipulated for in his contract of service. He will, however, be required to perform duties which, although not specifically stipulated for, are reasonably incidental to a seafaring life. Thus, the seaman must navigate the ship in all sorts of weather, conduct himself in a properly respectful manner towards his superiors, and assist with the working of the cargo in ports of call.'' Dealing with the master, at page 622 Halsbury has this to say" At common law the master of a vessel has absolute control over the passengers, and they are bound to obey all his reasonable orders, and in emergency even to work the ship or to fight it. The master may
Sections 48 and 49 deal with seamen's agreements. The rights of the seaman and his duties depend on the agreement. Amongst other things the master has the right to impose fines for certain breaches of discipline. This is taken from the Commonwealth Act. No master can take on a seaman without a properly signed agreement which has to be in the prescribed form to protect thP senman and signed by both the master and the seaman in the presence of the superintendent.
Mr. Jesson: That is not in the Bill. is in the Arbitration Act.
Sections 78 to 88 deal with offences committed by seamen. Section 78 reads'' Every master, seaman, or apprentice belonging to a ship who by wilful breach of duty, or by neglect of duty, or while in a state of intoxication( i.) Does any act tending directly to the loss, destruction of, or serious damage to the ship or cargo, or to endanger the life or limb of a person belonging to or on board the ship; or
20H
Queensland Ylar1:nc Bill.
[ASSEMBLY.]
(ii.) Fails to do any lawful act proper and requisite to be done by him for preserving the ship or cargo from immediate loss, destruction, or serious damage, or for preserving any person belonging to or on board the ship from immediate danger to life or limb, shall be guilty of a misdemeanour.'' Section 79 deals with a list of offences and the punishment for them. They are almost the same as is contained in Section 100 of the Commonwealth Navigation Act. The offences mentioned are inter alia deserting the ship, absenting themselves without leave, failure to obey lawful onlcrs, damage to a ship and secreting a stowaway or deserter. Section 81 says'' The master or any other officer of a ship who, without lawful justification, assaults any person belonging to the vessel, shall be guilty of an offence against this Act. Penalty: £40, or imprisonment for three months.'' The reason why I rcfcrretl to tlw common lrtw was because sonw clause,; of the Bill c:;n not be fully understood without an understanding of the common law. Hon. members might be inclined to think, reading that section, that the master who was found guilty of the offence referred to against a member of the crew would be liable to a fine of £40 or imprisonment for three months. I point out that in addition to that heavy damages may be given against him under common law. Section 82 deals with stowaways and lays down that they shall be subject to the discipline of the ship. Section 83 is foull(lcd direcily upon tlw Commonwealth Navigation Act and the Mnehant Shipping Act of 1804. It provide_, that if a sailor deserts his ship he has to be c;ent back to it. Section 86 provicles that a log book must be kept with regnrrl to all matters of a disciplinary nature. Under Section 88 before the seaman is discharged he comes before the superintendent, and if the superintendent decides any fine is not an appropriate one the fine is given back to the seaman. If he decides it is appropriate the amount of the fine shall be paid by the master or owner of the ship to the superintendent. Clauses 107 to 110 deal -with jurisdiction over passengers. They really are in accordm1ce with the common law, namely, that the captain has complete control over his ship at sea. Part XIII. deals with legal proceedings and detention of vessels. The Bill covers small boats. I think that is essential. Recently I tried to purchase a boat for my children. I answered a number of advertisements iu the newspaper. Some of the boats I inspected were in a very dangerous condition. A boat that a lady wanted to sell me had only a few inches of freeboard. She told me that someone had taken it three miles out to sea to some reef. She was either not telling the
Queensland Marine Bill.
truth or the person who took it out to that reef was very foolish. Regulations eovering small craft are essential. During the Minister's illtrocluctory speech I learned for the first time that bond wood boats will not float. The boat I eventually bought for my children was a hondwood boat. I was completely unaware of the fact that it would not float until I heard the Minister's statement.
lUr. Jesson: Some other boats will not float.
iUr. HART: Some will float. I should not be surprised if the majority of parents of children who own boats were not aware of that fact. Parents shoulrl not allow their children to have boats until the children are able to swim very well. JUr. WOOD. ~North Toowoomba-Leader
o~ the OppositiOn)
(3.37 p.m.): We were given a very comprehensive sunmwrv of the Dill by the Minister. Having listeH~d to the clear outline of it by the Minister and havinYers during the first reading debate. iUr, Walsll: You will not deny the truth of the statement. Jir. PIZZEY: As a matter of fact, I find that New South Wales promulgated regulations on the question of the branding of leather goods in 1950, and that this prompted Mr. Mills, the Secretary of the Leatherworkers' Union in Queensland, to press for similar legislation to be enacted in Queensland. Mr. Mills made similar representations for some time past. The a pp roach did not come from New South ·wales. Queensland and Victoria did not enact legislation cove,ring this matter until 1954. I have no doubt that this matter was discussed,
2022
Factories and Shops
[ASSEMBLY.]
however, between the hon. the member for Gharters Towers, who was then the Minister, and his counterparts in Victoria and New South Wales as stated by him. I do not think there was any agreement. lUr. Walsh: Do you realise that a ministerial decision of that nature would not be written on the files q
Mr. PIZZEY: Probably not. It will also be of interest for me to mention that in a letter dated 28 April, 1954, the Minister for Labour in Victoria suggested, amongst other things, that if the Queensland Minister felt that the matter was one warranting uniform legislation in all the States and that a conference of the Ministers of Labour of the respective States should be held, he, the Victorian Minister, would be prepared to get in touch with the other State Ministers and obtain their veiws upon the subject. The then Minister replied on 12 May, 1954, that he did not think any good purpose would be served by convening a conference of Ministers of Labour of the respective States. Now, here is an important point hon. members may not be aware of. I also find that upon the passing of our legislation, discussions were had between representatives of the trade here and the Chief Inspector of Factories and Shops, regarding the legislative requirement tu brand certain articles known as strapping. After discussion, the then Minister for Labour and Industry approved that no action br. taken to require the following items, regarded as strapping in the saddlery trade, to be branded in accordance with the provisions relating to harness, saddles and bridles. That was the administrative flecision of' the previous Government through the then Minister for Labour and Industry. It was agreed that no action was to be taken. The previous Goverinment decided that no action should be taken regarding the following items of strapping-martingales, breast plates, surcingles and stirrup leathers. We heard a lot about stirrup leaWers -that if they were not branded they would break. The previous Government also exempted girths, cruppers, clog collars, dog muzzles, head stalls, bridle rains and hobble straps. Following the conference between the industry and the then Chief Inspector of Factories and Shops, it was decided to exclude those articles from the provisions of the Act. Inquiries made from New South \:Vales by the then Chief Inspector of Factories and Shops, Mr. Bennett, revealed that although the New South Wales Act applied, the New South Wales ilepartment did not enforce the provrswns as they affected items called ''strapping''. This would appear to support the claim of the hon. member for Chermside that New South Wales was not policing the Act in its entirety. . The allegation that was made during the mtroductory stage that, with the deletion of the items mentioned, there would be nothing left in the Act that required branding is, of
Acts ArnenYhich is employing much labour. Queensland is the largest poducer of the best saddlery made in Australia. There is no doubt about that. Over the last two years there have been indications that the demand for Queensland saddlery was lessening because of the branding provisions. Is it unreasonable for an industry that employs about one hundred people to approach the Government and ask that something be done to protect their organisations and their employees. Queensland industry is asking the Government to make it possible for Queensland salidlery to be sold interstate. The Leader of the Opposition suggested that thm·e was no protection for the consumer. The hou. gentleman quoted me as saying that tlh' man who rode horses knew saddles, an(l went on to say that the same argument, if valid, could be applied to a footballer or boxH, but the analogy is as weak as the Labour Party nncl must fall to the ground, as noone could suggest that a footballer or boxer wouhl be running a business in the country and selling boxing gloves and football boob.
!fe ;vent on to say that legi>lation was ?emg_ mt_roduced in South Australia. Again It l11ghhghts the points I h:we endeavoured _to place hefore the House since 1954. There_ IS. only one wholesale manufacturing orgamsation of saddlery in South Australia If legislation is going before the South Aus: 'tral'ian Parliament, or has already been passed, the >~hole intent of the legislation woul~ be agamst sweat-labour conditions anli unfau trading conditions in the fancy leather goods and travel goods section. I have never ceased to uphold the view in the !fouse that this section of the leather trade 1s happy about the legislation. It epitomises their knowledge of the Act when the . Op~osition say that we are leaving nothmg m the Act. Only six items are coming out, but something like 36 remain. The legislation in South Australia will have little or no effect on the items we are intending to take out of the Act because there is little or nothing of that type made in that State. The Leader of the Opposition said that all ~he arguments put up dealt with the protectiOn of t~e wholesaler and retailer, but not the protection of the consumer. The hon. member for Gregory has been interested in horses for the best part of his life. Could anyone suggest to him that a saddle is made out of anything other than leather~ He would just laugh in his face. To suggest to any man using saddlery that it is not made out of leather is just too farcical for words.
..'\fr. Houston: They do. Jlir. DEWAR: I shall be glad to know of them. The object of the Bill is to protect the country saddler who is conducting a legitimate business and selling well-macle goods. The argument relating to boxers and footballers knowing boxing gloves am1 football boots is just poppycock, and typical of the arguments advanced by members of the J,abour PaTt;·. The Leader of the Opposition also spoke of the Federated Leather Goods 1\fanufactmcJ'" of Australia, and quotecl the comments of Mr. Herford in one of their pub]jcations. He is Presiclent of the Fefleral Council of Leathergoods Manufacturers of Australin. He stressed the need to mnintaiu certain pro· visions so that the Customs Departmcl!t
2023
Factorie< cmd Shops
[ASSEMBLY.]
couid be asked to ensure that all leather goods were branded with the country of manufacture, whether Japan or England.
llfr. Davies: The conference expressed pleasure about the branding of leather goods.
lUr. DE WAR: I agree, but the articles tw der
discussion were fancy leather and travel goods. Queensland manufacturers and the Government are in agreement with the F'ederal body on that point, but no oaddlery is imported into Australia. The Federal body was concerned about the shoddy leather goods from some European countries and the better class articles imported from England. Those articles should be branded. The hon. member for Charters Towers when Minister for Labour and Industry introduced the 1954 Act containing thi& provision, and he must be given full credit for it. The Leader of the Opposition used the statement of the Federal body as an argument against the Bill. The only aim of the Jle we propose to set up district branches. We will probably establish a central office in Brisbane and a branch on the Downs, the Coast, in Central Queensland, in the \Vest wherever we: think it necessary. That shows that the Government are out to give service. The matter has been under consideration for a long time. We have often asked why water that falls as rain on properties is allowed to flow over them anc} find its way to the sea. Before the days of .heavy c:arthmoving plant and the know-how in these matters, it was very difficult to do much about it, but we can do more now. 'I'he Bill seeks to help those 1vho are unable to help themselves as well as those who can help themselves. Many primary producers will be able to pay for the work if they know how to go about it. All that the property owner .has to do is apply to the Irrigation Commissioner for assistance and as soon as possible an officer of the Commission will inspect the property. The owner will be given a fair idea of what can be clone and the lik€ly cost. If he thinks it worth while a complete survey will be made and a more exact estimate of the cost given. It is very important to take all precautions. Man;' property owners would not be capable of selecting the most suitable site; sometimes it is not evit1ent on the smface and test holes are necessary. All that assistance will be available to those who can help themselves and it will he considerable. 'l'he cost of the expert help will be great and as time goes on it will increase. It will mean that 1Ye shall need to engage quite a number of experts to render advice. The main object of the Bill is to help those who are unable to help themselves. There is always a large percentage of primary pror1uccrs who are not able to .help themselves. We have to rememIJer that many young men going into all branches of primary production have to borrow money to become established. In many cases their commitments are very heavy, making it very difficult for them ta: raise the additional money required in the normal way. There;fore we propose to assist them as much as we possibly can. "vVe are aware, of course, that there are some people who cannot be helped. In any walk of life you fh1d people who will not help themselves. Unless people arc: prepared to help themselves we cannot help them. I hope that we do not find too many of them.
2036
Farm Water Supplies
Assistance Bill.
[ASSEMBLY.]
It will become very largely the responsibility of the Irrigation Commissioner to see that the schemes are successful. I think it was the hon. member for Mackay who said that some of the fanners might find themselves embarrassed. My interpretation of that remark would be that some of them would find themselves with a scheme which would cost more than they were able to carry. We are trying to get away from that as far as possible. Therefore we first of all would haVG to inYestigate a property to see that the scheme was economically sound. If we did not think it was we would tell the applicant so.
position of the applicant. The board may decide to give 20, 30, 40, 50 or up to 90 per cent. of the cost. If the board considers the applicant is able to finance his own works it will not advance him any money. That is important. It is likely that some people who can afford to finance themselvl\s may seek assistance under the scheme. We do not propose to accommodate them. H the board considers an applicant is entitled to help he will get it. 'l'he amount advanced will depend on the applicant's neecl. It may be asked how the board will arrive at what is a fair advance. The answers to the questions on the application form will disclosP the financial position of the applicant. They will be an excellent guide. After the applicant is advised as to what can be done to the property, and after he is given an cstimate of the cost of the works, he is allowed a month to make up his mind whether he wishes to go on with the scheme.
As hon. members know, agriculture has become highly sciPntifie. Some people who buy farms for agricultural purposes do not know that the land is not suitable. Perhaps the land is not suitable for irrirration. We are not going to rely only on u{~ knowledge of the Irrigation Department. The Department of Agr-iculture and Stock has experts who understand soil, stock, and irrigation. If an applicant wishes his property to bYith we shall send an officer from the Department of AgricnltUTe mHl Stock to inspect and subsequently advise the investigating committee on whether the proposition is sound, that is, whether the soil i,; suitable and all the conditions lend themselves to irrigation. If the inspector submits a favourable report we are pn1parcd to go on with t.he scheme and giy;c the applicant an estimate of costs. It is most unlikely that an applicant with limited finance would be committed to a scheme that would be more than he could carry. That is a veTy important part of t.h.e investigation. After the inquiry has been made aud a rcpoTt submitted on the suitability of the soil and all the other factors, we then have to go to the Agricultural Bank for the loan. Here again, we have received the utmost co-operation from the 'l'reasury Department and the Agricultural Bank. 'l'he Agricultural Bank has agreed to give us a seat on the Agricultural Bank Board. The Bank Board >Yill be the committee of investigation. The Board at present consists of Mr. Cameron as chairman, Mr. Matthews, an officer of my department, a member of the Land Administration Board, as deputy chairman, and Mr. Barnes, a representative of the Department of Agriculture and Stock. We have now been granted further representation on the Bank Board and the Irrigation Commissioner or his deputy will occupy that seat.
JUr. Walsh: You would be doing just the same as Labour Governments in that respect.
The boarcl will examine the application and decide whether the proposal is a sound one. If it is approved the board will furnish an estimate of the cost of the plan and works. After examining the financial position of the applicant the board will advise him of the amount it is prepared to lend on the project. The Bill provides that the applicant shall be financed to the extent of 90 per cent. of the cost of the work. That will not apply in every case; it will depend on the financial
IIIr. 1UULLER: The hon. member for Bundaberg knows that any beneficial legislation introduced by Labour G·overnments had our support. Labour Goyernmcnts were not conversant with the hazards of farming. They did not think of the extra assistance provided under the Bill. If an applicant or mortgagor :finds at a time of hardship through floods or pests that he cannot meet his payments to the Agricultural Bank, the Bank Board is
JUr. Walsh: This looks to me like a bit of political window-dressing. lUr. ::IIULLER: Naturally the hon. member would say that. As a contrast to the member's opinion I point out what the people of Queensland think. Although th£o Bill has not yet gone through applicatious are flowing in so rapidly that much timG will be occupied in dealing wth them all. 'l'he hon. member is one of those fortunate peopl·J who clo not need to borrow anv money. The hon. member seems to have l~st his ·,.ympathy for the people who are obliged to borro\\- money. ~Ir.
Walslt: You never had any sympathy
for them. 1\Ir. 1\IULLER: I agree that the hon. member never had any sympathy for them. I have been through the mill. I lmve been in the position ·when I had to borrow money to help me eke out an existence. The terms of the loan will be for 12 years \Yhich >ve think is reasonable. There will br no repayment of principal for the first two years. The interest will apply from the time the applicant is financed and will be at the ordinary Agricultural Bank rate. If that rate varies, the applicant's rate will vary accordingly. That is not window clres~iug. The idea is to assist those who need assistance.
Farm Water Supplies
[25 MARCH.]
empowe1 eel to grant a period of grace. It may review the position and give an extended period of payment.
JUr. Burrows: Is the Bank Board allowed to give any rebate in interest or reduction in interest~ lUr. "i\IULLER: I explained that. The rate will be the Agricultural Bank interest rate. As that vaTies, so will the interest rate vary to the mortgagor. "i\Ir. Burrows: In the event of hardship would there be any waiving of interest. Mr. }fULLER: The Bill provides for an extended period to pay the debt. JUr. Burrows: There is no provision for relief or waiving of interest~
Assistance Bill.
2037
he would have to consult th;e present mortgagee. The mortgagor could not again mortgage the property without the approval of the present mortgagee. J'IIr. Power: Would the Crown get the :first mortgage~ JUr. "i\IULLER: The Crown would take the :first mortgage. I am glad to have that interjection. It would mean in the case of a private bank holding a £5,000 mortgage and a farmer wanting another £2,000 mort· gage, the £2,000 mortgage woult1 take precedence over the other. J'IIr. Hilton: Seeing will be believing on that one.
Jir. lUUI,LER: That is a matter that will have to be looked into. The position in regard to properties already under mortgage was a little obscure, and calls for further explanation. Section 26 of the Agricultural Bank Act pTovides for a moTtgage limit of £7,500. Under the Bill that section will not apply. Additional money for this purpose can be advancAd, that is, over nnd abo•·e the mortgage limit of £7,500. Anyone who had borrowed the limit of £7,500 coulU borrow, 6ay, another £2,500 or whatever the cost mny be, to enable him to :finance this work. 'I sait1 earlier that the Government were going to appropriate a special sum of money. ·we are not going to depend on the present :finances of the Agricultural Bank but we are going to provide an additionnl sum of money to :finance this work.
J'IIr. JUULLER: I hope that view is a pessimistic one. I do not think there will be any great difficulty. I cite New South Wales as an example. This was one of the matters I enquired into very fully when I was in the South aFJ I tl~ought it was a question which might cause a hold-up. After inquiries I found that the private banks were willing in most cases to accept a second mortgage because they felt that the provision of water facilities on a farm would enhance the value of the property, and the security of the bank would be greater than before. If you put a water scheme worth £2,000 on a property of cours•e the property is worth £2,000 more and the prospects of the mortgagee are greater than before. I found several cases where people took out loans and were able completely to wipe out the additional loan in three years. The interests of the bank are well covered. We want it understood thnt if an authority holds a mortgage over a property that the second mortgage cannot be made without its approval. As I said in my introductory speech they do not actually engage in a mortgage in New South \'V ales but there is power to issue an order of charge which becomes a :first charge on the property without interfering with the mortgage at all in exactly the same way as the Land Tax Commissioner would have a :first charge upon a property. When I discussed this matter with the bankers they said after listening to the position that they would rather have it the way we intended to have it than the New South Wales system.
J'IIr. Burrows: Does that mean that a man can get £7,500 plus another £2,500 ~
~Ir. Power: The banks are giving a concession by taking the second mortgage.
::tir. 3IULLER: That could not be done, as the hon. member knows. He was an hon. member of the Government that carried out a similar system and that Government made no provision for a rebate of interest. Similar conditions prevailed at that time. In times of hardship people were given extra time in which to pay their debt, but there was no conceBsion in regard to interest.
1Ur. Walsl!: In some cases you fund the arrears and they become part of the annual payments.
lUr. "i\fULLER: If he has borrowed, say, £5,000, it does not menu that he can borrow only the difference between that amount ant1 £7,500. The money to be used for this purpose will be in addition to the loan from the Agricultural Bank. We do not expect any difficulty where properties are mortgnged to private banks. I think, Mr. Speaker, I explained during my introductory speech that I convened a conference of the leading private banks and pointed out to them what we were doing. They fully apprecinted the fact that in cases where they held a mortgage for an applicant to engage in a further mortgage
lUr. MULLER: They would have to agree. They could stop it if they so desired. They can do it under the New South Wales sPheme too. They can say, "If you go into this business and allow an order of charge to hang over our heads we will call up your mortgage.'' They as&ured me that they would rather have it the way we propose. Of course, if a client was not a suitable person, they could jack up immediat:ely and say that they would not take a second mortgage.
Jlfr. Power: A person cannot get it unless the bank consents to the mortgage.
2038
Farm Water Supplies
[ASSEMBLY.)
JUr. :il'IULLER: People, in many cases, would rush in and neither the private banks nor the Agricultural Bank could afford to take the risk. lUr. Walsh: Surely you would not suggest that a bank woulll surrender its right to call up its money under a mortgage~ i\Ir. i\IULLER: No. The banks will have to approve of the proposal beforP anything nm be done. JUr. Burrows: Did the banks indicate that thc>y would require a second mortgage 1
Jlr. :il'IULLER: I told the banks that that was ·what it woulc1 mean, but they thought that their rocition here "\YOUld he more secure than it is in N cw South IV ales »·ith the order of charge. l\'Iost bankers are sound, practical b\1siness people, and I am wrc that they w1ll welcome the proposal rather than sec their clients >~·itlwut a water scheme. We will have to be very careful about any work that is done on a property. The hon. member for Mackay mid that a property owner might be embarrassed by the cost of a water scheme. Similarly, the Crown might he embarrassed if the scheme is not properly constructed. The work will have to be carried out to the satisfaction of the Commissioner of Irrigation before the contractor is pnic1. No payment for work will be made until the Commissioner is satisfied that the >YOrk has been carried out in accordance with the plans and specifications. JUr. Power: Will that apply also progress payments~
to
i\Ir. JUULLER: Yes. It will be the responsibility of the Commissioner and his officers to see that no contractor or property owner who does the work himself is paid 1mtil the work is satisfactorily completed. It is necessary for us to take that precaution, particularly where the Crown advance's the money. If any property owner wants the department's engineers to supervise the work, their services will be provided. Of course, the Crown will have to be 11aid for their time and travelling expenses. lUr. Burrows: Irrespective of whether a property owner gets the advance from the Agricultural Bank or privately, the services of an engineer will still be made availableg JUr. lliULLER: If a property owner takes the Tisk of doing his own supervising, he can save the money that the sen'ices of an engineer would cost. Hmvcver, I have had as much experience on the land as anyone, and if I were having a water supply constructed on my property I would regard it as a very good investment to pay an engineer to see that the work was properly done. The Commissioner is also empowered to hire plant. It is not expected that the department will engage in construction works generally, but it will be more or less obliged to
Assistance Bill.
bore for underground supplies as very few contractors have their O>vn boring plants. ·wherever possible, however, private contractors will be encouraged to go in for that class of work. My experience of the last few months has been that very few boring contractors have the necessary facilities or experience to develop bores. Either the plant cannot go deep enough or the contractor does not understand how to develop the bore. The property owner can ask the department to do the work. I am sure that the feeling of secmity that he would enjoy from having the department sink his bore would be well worth while. VIT e will be more or less obliged to get a few boring plants going. If private enterprise will enter the field we will encourage it. We do not propose to purchase a great deal of plant such as dozers and earth-moving equipment because private enterprise, or the property owner, might do that. In New South \Vales legislation of this type has brought private contractors into the pic.ture. They have purchased plants and are domg the work under proper supervision. }fr. ~ower: You might be able to get some of the plant from the local authority, too. )lr. }fULLER: I do not know what plant the local authorities have. 3Ir. Power: They would have moving plant, wouldn't they 7
earth-
3Ir. :HULLER: Local authorities proba?ly. "~>'Ol:lcl do some of the work. In my chstnct m the off season they have not enough wor~ to keep the plant enmployed and they ~clverbse that they will construct dams on pnvate properties. INhere they have the plant to do the work they would probably welcome the opportunity. Nobody can afford to keep heavy dozers idle. As I· said earlier I met a young chap with a dozer and tracto~ that cost him £22,000. He could not afford to keep them idle hut he was doing a wonderful job. The Bill will encourage that sort of enterprise. \Ve intend to provide for group schemes, too. Two or three or more farmers may wish to club t~gcther in a group scheme, such as w.as ;11en!wned some time ago in the Gympie chstnct. The hon. member for Nash has b~o or three prospective groups in his distnct. If they arrange among themselves to accept responsibility for financing the scheme, they will be helped. We. propose to assist the people away from the nvcrs, too. If a pipeline is laid a mile or two or even further from a stream where there is sufficient water, a few farmers could club together and arrange a suitable group. Many other possibilities will arise as we move on. The Bill is wide enough to cater for them. The important part of it is the request for assistance. The hon. member for Bundaberg said the Bill was only window-dressing, but he would be amazed at the number of
Farm Water Supplies
(:lJ lVfARCH.]
requests coming in. They are coming in so fast that I am wom1ering how it will cope 11·ith them.
;)fr. Lloyd: You do not know how much it will cost
annually~
lUr. ~IULLER: When the whole proposal is summed up the amount that will be adv:mced by way of loan will perhaps be small compared with the service that will be given by the department. The required sum will increase. Another important featme of the Bill is that the money that will be provide(l b~· way of loan will go into something in the nature of a revolving fund to be nse
